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	<title>Comments on: The Moral Failure of the New Atheists</title>
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	<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/</link>
	<description>On the fringes of the Emergence...</description>
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		<title>By: Twitted by gideony</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by gideony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-128</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was Twitted by gideony [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by gideony [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting Integration Posts &#171; Composition Culture</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Integration Posts &#171; Composition Culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-127</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;The Moral Failure of the New Atheists&#8221; at Emergent Outliers [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;The Moral Failure of the New Atheists&#8221; at Emergent Outliers [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blake Huggins</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Huggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-123</guid>
		<description>I agree with you on the dialogue, Paul.  But I can&#039;t say that these &quot;new&quot; (I don&#039;t really believe they are new at all) atheists offer much in the way of furthering dialogue.  Which is unfortunate because more than a few prominent Christian theologians are willing to do so.  Dan Dennett&#039;s refusal to engage in substantive conversation with Philip Clayton is a recent case in point.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you on the dialogue, Paul.  But I can&#039;t say that these &quot;new&quot; (I don&#039;t really believe they are new at all) atheists offer much in the way of furthering dialogue.  Which is unfortunate because more than a few prominent Christian theologians are willing to do so.  Dan Dennett&#039;s refusal to engage in substantive conversation with Philip Clayton is a recent case in point.</p>
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		<title>By: Gideon</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Gideon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-121</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the case.  The &quot;New Atheists&quot; is a rather specific group of writers/thinkers.  I&#039;m not talking about atheism here, I&#039;m not talking about it as an ethos - I&#039;m talking about a group of guys who are promoting atheism in a very particular way. 
 
Does standing up and saying &quot;you&#039;re being deceitful, you&#039;re being harmful and participating in the things you are supposable against?&quot; mean saying &quot;you people are idiots or non-people or the source of all evil?&quot;  There&#039;s a difference.  I can be against their behaviors without making them sub-human.  Perhaps I failed to some extent, as it was certainly not my intention.  If the &quot;New Atheists&quot; are against the evils that religion has caused - human suffering, mainly, then you don&#039;t go about it by saying something as stupid as one cause is responsible or more importantly, one group. 
 
Terry Eagleton&#039;s book &quot;Reason, Faith and Revolution&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Faith-Revolution-Reflections-Lectures/dp/0300151799/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1252945207&amp;sr=8-1&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Faith-Revolution-Ref...&lt;/a&gt; (also an atheist) does a good job criticizing this group in a useful way.  And even more importantly, Eagleton actually knows something about religion aside from the strawmen Harris, Dawkins, etc. seem to understand. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t think that&#039;s the case.  The &quot;New Atheists&quot; is a rather specific group of writers/thinkers.  I&#039;m not talking about atheism here, I&#039;m not talking about it as an ethos &#8211; I&#039;m talking about a group of guys who are promoting atheism in a very particular way. </p>
<p>Does standing up and saying &quot;you&#039;re being deceitful, you&#039;re being harmful and participating in the things you are supposable against?&quot; mean saying &quot;you people are idiots or non-people or the source of all evil?&quot;  There&#039;s a difference.  I can be against their behaviors without making them sub-human.  Perhaps I failed to some extent, as it was certainly not my intention.  If the &quot;New Atheists&quot; are against the evils that religion has caused &#8211; human suffering, mainly, then you don&#039;t go about it by saying something as stupid as one cause is responsible or more importantly, one group. </p>
<p>Terry Eagleton&#039;s book &quot;Reason, Faith and Revolution&quot; <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Faith-Revolution-Reflections-Lectures/dp/0300151799/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1252945207&amp;sr=8-1" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Faith-Revolution-Ref.." rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Faith-Revolution-Ref..</a>. (also an atheist) does a good job criticizing this group in a useful way.  And even more importantly, Eagleton actually knows something about religion aside from the strawmen Harris, Dawkins, etc. seem to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul OFlaherty</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul OFlaherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Which is why I have issue with your post. Your post does exactly the same thing, looking at the more vocal extremes of the so called &quot;New Atheists&quot; and making broad sweeping statements. 
 
The key to any move forward is going to be done through dialogue on all sides and by all sides reigning in the deriding of the other. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is why I have issue with your post. Your post does exactly the same thing, looking at the more vocal extremes of the so called &quot;New Atheists&quot; and making broad sweeping statements. </p>
<p>The key to any move forward is going to be done through dialogue on all sides and by all sides reigning in the deriding of the other.</p>
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		<title>By: gideon2929</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>gideon2929</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-119</guid>
		<description>My issue isn&#039;t that they are being proactive at all.  I don&#039;t have an issue with atheism or atheists - but I do have an issue with that kind of rhetoric.  It&#039;s exactly that churches have been using such rhetoric that it is a known problem - we know what the fruits of this sort of work is, and the atheists should know better.  
  
Some of my favorite writers and thinkers are atheists (as is a much loved and admired brother of mine) but I am not talking about atheism in general here, I&#039;m talking about a group of people who regularly make sweeping, outlandish statements (often supported by bad data as Harris does in his book) that seek to demonize most of the human race.  
  
Is it a problem when religious people do it, too?  Yes, of course!  But if atheists want to maintain any sense of moral superiority before us crazies they need to be more rational and better at kindness than we.  But the Emergent conversation is generally very aware of those in our own camp who are less than gracious against our brothers, but the &quot;New Atheist&quot; conversation is becoming less and less civil and more and more ideological and that is a threat to what common goals we share.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My issue isn&#039;t that they are being proactive at all.  I don&#039;t have an issue with atheism or atheists &#8211; but I do have an issue with that kind of rhetoric.  It&#039;s exactly that churches have been using such rhetoric that it is a known problem &#8211; we know what the fruits of this sort of work is, and the atheists should know better.  </p>
<p>Some of my favorite writers and thinkers are atheists (as is a much loved and admired brother of mine) but I am not talking about atheism in general here, I&#039;m talking about a group of people who regularly make sweeping, outlandish statements (often supported by bad data as Harris does in his book) that seek to demonize most of the human race.  </p>
<p>Is it a problem when religious people do it, too?  Yes, of course!  But if atheists want to maintain any sense of moral superiority before us crazies they need to be more rational and better at kindness than we.  But the Emergent conversation is generally very aware of those in our own camp who are less than gracious against our brothers, but the &quot;New Atheist&quot; conversation is becoming less and less civil and more and more ideological and that is a threat to what common goals we share.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul OFlaherty</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul OFlaherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-118</guid>
		<description>I would suggest you read the &lt;a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.thenation.com\/doc\/20070625\/aronson&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;2007 post from the Nation&lt;/a&gt; for a different rational behind what &quot;New Atheists&quot; represent. Also, I would venture that the difference between these so called &quot;new atheists&quot; and atheists in general is a simply that they are being proactive rather than passive about being atheists and informing people about what that means. 
 
For all your post talks about atheists &quot;demonization of the Other&quot;, your post does exactly the same thing, making the atheists &quot;the Other&quot; because some of them are choosing to evangelize in much the same way as churches of all faiths have done for centuries. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest you read the <a href="http:\/\/www.thenation.com\/doc\/20070625\/aronson" target="_blank">2007 post from the Nation</a> for a different rational behind what &quot;New Atheists&quot; represent. Also, I would venture that the difference between these so called &quot;new atheists&quot; and atheists in general is a simply that they are being proactive rather than passive about being atheists and informing people about what that means. </p>
<p>For all your post talks about atheists &quot;demonization of the Other&quot;, your post does exactly the same thing, making the atheists &quot;the Other&quot; because some of them are choosing to evangelize in much the same way as churches of all faiths have done for centuries.</p>
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		<title>By: gideon2929</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>gideon2929</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Yes, religion kills, but of course - so do atheists, politics, economics, nationalism, etc.  Ultimately - people do. What actually set me on this line of thinking was that it occurred to me that if these &#039;New Atheists&#039; took what I believe out of the question and wanted my actions and what I believed needed to be done we&#039;d have a great deal in common.  The problem is, of course, the insistance once this creation of the other that includes all those that share the same goals.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, religion kills, but of course &#8211; so do atheists, politics, economics, nationalism, etc.  Ultimately &#8211; people do. What actually set me on this line of thinking was that it occurred to me that if these &#039;New Atheists&#039; took what I believe out of the question and wanted my actions and what I believed needed to be done we&#039;d have a great deal in common.  The problem is, of course, the insistance once this creation of the other that includes all those that share the same goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Brink</title>
		<link>http://emergentoutliers.com/2009/09/14/the-moral-failure-of-the-new-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Brink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentoutliers.com/?p=257#comment-116</guid>
		<description>What I hear you saying is that the New Atheists are doing the same thing they are condemning, which I agree with.  Any system that creates the &quot;Other&quot; ends the same. 
 
But what I often think gets missed is the point they are bringing up, which is that religion kills.  And it does.  I so wish we could create a dialog between Christianity and atheists to see they are trying to accomplish much the same thing: the end of religion.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I hear you saying is that the New Atheists are doing the same thing they are condemning, which I agree with.  Any system that creates the &quot;Other&quot; ends the same. </p>
<p>But what I often think gets missed is the point they are bringing up, which is that religion kills.  And it does.  I so wish we could create a dialog between Christianity and atheists to see they are trying to accomplish much the same thing: the end of religion.</p>
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